Below is a transcription of the episode:
There is so much music out there, and so many people with different preferences.
But have you ever wondered why it is that you like some music and not others?
Have you ever pondered the possibility that your unique energetic blueprint might have some influence over that big why?
And how are these artists creating their music and lyrics?
Is there some secret formula that anyone can follow, or is there more of a soul-led endeavor at play?
On the Music By Design Podcast, we are doing the research and finding out through deep interviews with both lovers and creators of music, to find out exactly why it is that we love the music that we do, and how the way it’s created can impact who’s going to like their music.
So come dive in with us.
Start cleaning your house.
Go on that long road trip because these are long episodes.
Hello, my friends.
Welcome to the final interview episode of the first year, season one, of Music By Design podcast.
I am your host, Anna Kinney, from Anna With Intention.
Thank you so much for being here.
I am like celebrating big time because I made it, we made it, through a whole year, first year.
This is something that is a big deal.
I mean, to make it more than three or four episodes is a big deal for any podcast.
And, you know, I made the commitment at the beginning of the year that I would do 26 episodes.
I would do a full year of bi-weekly episodes.
And I only had one week that I missed, but I made up for it.
And even through huge life changes, having to go through the process of buying a house for the first time and uprooting and moving to a new town and completely rearranging and reordering quite a bit of my life and then getting a new puppy.
And just just huge, huge, huge changes that occurred for me personally this year.
And we did it.
Yay.
So I’m celebrating.
I hope that all of you had a very safe, warm and happy holiday season.
Whatever you celebrate, I hope it was great.
And if not, you know, that’s okay too.
We’ve all had our holiday seasons that were not the ideal.
But, you know, we made it through and hopefully figured out what we need to change and make different, what kind of new boundaries we need to create around how to keep ourselves feeling balanced, insane during these times and move through.
I love this time of the year as far as the energetics go because the sun moves into gate 58 typically like right on Christmas or like the day before the day after usually.
And gate 58 for me personally makes an electromagnetic with my gate 18.
And so I get a fully defined route during this time, which it can create more pressure, but I find that it actually helps me to just let everything go and just sit.
I’ve done a lot of like just making myself sit and relax and watch Christmas movies and, you know, not go out into the frenzy or, you know, to only do so very, very little.
On Christmas Eve, I gave myself, I went and got myself a pedicure and a manicure, and it was the best pedicure I have ever had.
It was so good.
So, yeah, so we’re still in this Gate 58 energy until the 30th.
And, you know, the opposite gate from 58 that the Earth is in is Gate 52, which is the Gate of Stillness.
And 58 is joy, 52 is stillness.
So we have this beautiful time to kind of like, yeah, this is, it feels, it feels appropriate, like why we, a lot of us, I know not everyone gets to take a winter vacation, but a lot of us take like a winter break.
And, you know, reflecting on last year, last year, I did not take a vacation.
I just took, I think I took Christmas Eve and Christmas Day off, but then I went right back to work.
And it did not feel right.
It really did not feel right to be working out in the world while everyone else was kind of hanging out at home, you know, relaxing and doing their thing.
It felt very, very strange.
It energetically just felt really strange.
And so I made sure that this year I planned ahead and, you know, saved up whatever money I needed to so that I could take a week off.
And I did.
I am I am doing one day of work, but it’s not really it’s not cleaning houses.
It’s hanging out with my girls that I nanny.
So it’s kind of easy work easier in some ways.
So yeah, so the sun the sun is in the gate of joy.
Earth is in the gate of stillness.
We have Mercury in Gate five, which is the gate of rhythm.
We’ve talked about a lot on this podcast.
So talking about the rhythms and cycles of life.
We have Venus is in Gate 49, which is the gate of revolution, which really has a lot to do with knowing what principles you want to uphold in order to know like who’s in your tribe and who’s not.
It can, I call this the gate of the no.
My husband has this gate in his incarnation cross and some other key people I know of.
This is a gate that wants to say no to everything first and can, needs a little time before it’ll agree to something because it has to run whatever it is, whether it’s a person or a situation, it has to run it through its principles around, is this really right for me and my family, my tribe?
So I can take a little time to massage things in with this gate.
So this is what Venus and Venus is a lot about values and principles.
And so, yeah, it’s amplifying that kind of energy right now.
We have Mars is still in retrograde in gate 31.
It’s in gate 31 line 2 right now and slowly moving towards gate 31 line 1.
And this gate is the gate of leadership.
It can have…
It’s a throat gate.
And so it can, when it speaks out of turn or from a shadow place, a wounded place, it can be what we call arrogant, which has a lot to do with kind of either it’s got two poles.
It’s either looking down at others or like scornful, or it can also defer power to others.
But both of them are these undercurrent ways of trying to get energy and attention from others.
A lot of things, you know, energy from the throat tries to get attention and recognition.
And so that’s like the shadowy side of this energy, just to pay attention to.
The higher side of this energy is leadership, and it’s really, it’s not even wanting to be a leader necessarily.
It’s the idea that some of the best leaders are the ones that don’t want to lead.
I saw this, oh, we’ve been watching the show Lost recently, and the episode we watched, one of them that we watched last night, where Jack was actually like talking to Locke, and he was saying, he’s like, I don’t want to lead.
I don’t want to be a leader.
But part of that is what makes him such a good leader and why people look to him.
So it’s kind of that, that’s the style of leadership energy.
Leadership that just people just naturally call you out, recognize the energy within you.
And then you have to recognize, okay, is this actually the right situation for me to step into that role that I’m being called out into or not?
And you run it through your strategy and authority.
Jupiter is currently direct in Gate 35, the Gate of New Experiences.
So we got new experiences are being expanded and blessed upon us right now.
Saturn is direct in Gate 63.
If you were born in the 90s, there’s a good chance, I think it’s 1992 to 1994 or so, you’re in your Saturn return.
I think it’s actually 94 to 96.
If you have Saturn in Pisces in your natal chart, you’re probably experiencing your Saturn return right now.
And Saturn is in Gate 63.
Gate 63 makes us want to doubt ourselves.
There’s a lot of talk about self-doubt and how to navigate it going around right now.
I’ve been talking to a lot of people about it.
And Saturn comes around to kind of shake up the structures that we have built, whether they be internally, mentally, psychologically, or whether they be external.
And those structures are going to get shaken up.
They might cause us to doubt ourselves and doubt the path we’re on.
And how can you turn that self-doubt into inquiry, curiosity instead?
Uranus is retrograde in Gate 23.
This is the energy of breaking things down into smaller pieces, so that they can be easily explained.
And Uranus is all about the uniqueness.
So where are we kind of seeing this in others, seeing this within ourselves, our ability to kind of break down complex ideas and share them in ways that are relatable and understandable.
Neptune is direct in Gate 36.
Neptune has been in 36 for a long time, but I think it’s going to be moving out and will not be back in 36 again for a while once we get into next year.
So that’ll be fun.
So right now, collectively, because Neptune is in 36 and Jupiter is in 35, we collectively are experiencing this collective emotional wave energy that goes from the throat to the solar plexus.
So if you’re normally undefined in the solar plexus, you may be experiencing these emotional ups and downs a little bit more intensely than normal.
Just ride the waves.
Don’t make any major decisions when you’re in any of these kind of emotional lows or highs.
That’s the wisdom that we gain from the solar plexus.
But just talk about them.
Just talk about what’s the feeling you’re having around needing to kind of burn down your life so that you can experience something new.
Where are you experiencing boredom and restlessness and nervousness?
This can be kind of an energy that creates a lot of anxiety where maybe you don’t normally have it.
So just bring awareness to that, and that can make a huge shift for you.
And Pluto.
Hanging out in Gate 60 still.
Even though it’s in Aquarius, it’s still in Gate 60 for a while.
And 60 is also all about understanding what what in our lives has had some limitations, and working with them, and knowing how to work within those containers, so that we can make real change rather than just feeling like overwhelmed by the limitation.
60 is a root energy, and a lot of the root center energies have overwhelmed as an undercurrent theme.
So, instead of feeling like at a loss because the limitation just…
Instead of giving your power away to it, how can you work with it and, you know, make little baby step changes.
And then the nodes, the nodes shifted on the 10th or no, on the 4th of December into gates 25 and 46, some G-center love gates, love of the spirit and love of the body.
I also love this transit because I’m getting another electromagnetic with gate 46 to my sun gate, my gate 29.
I already have definition in these centers that it connects, but it’s nice for my 29 to kind of get that little bit of relief from always searching for the 46.
That feels good to me.
So I love sharing the info about the transits and all this stuff with all of you during these intros.
But I think what I’m going to do for next season is I will release separate episodes that include some of this information about what’s going on in the transits, maybe how to support yourself, what kind of music might be supported, feel supportive during certain transits based on the energetics of those artists, based on some of the stuff that we have explored and discovered and talked about in this season.
So I’m going to make fewer promises.
I’m not going to make any huge commitments to release.
I’m not…
I would love to have the energy to release an episode every week.
I don’t know that that’s practical right now.
I am going to still try to release bi-weekly, but I’m not sure what that’s going to look like yet.
I’m just going to see how things play out.
I do have a few calls booked with a few of my artists and creators for next season, so we’ll just see how it goes.
I do intend on releasing a recap episode in two weeks, where I will go over the cumulative findings that I discovered in my season one research project around why we like the music that we like, and what I think season two is going to look like, and where we’ll go.
So I’ll go more into detail on that in the next episode.
So like I mentioned, this is the last interview episode of the season, and this will be the last episode where I interviewed a lover of music.
All episodes going forward, I’m going to aim to interview all creators, songwriters, musicians for season two.
So with that, if you are a singer, songwriter, or musician and would like to be on the podcast, please send me a message on Instagram at AnnaWithIntention, or you can send me an email, annawithintention at gmail.com.
If you are not a songwriter, a singer or a musician, but you do know of some that you would like to hear me interview that are local here to upstate New York, or at least the Northeast region, let me know.
I created a poll on Spotify here, if you’re listening on Spotify, that you can answer.
If you know of some people who you think would be great candidates for this show, who are open to this sort of thing, and have some stuff that they’ve released and recorded that I can access on Spotify or YouTube or their website, please make me a suggestion.
I have a long list of artists that I’ve come up with on my own and with the help of a poll I did on Facebook a few weeks ago, but I’m always looking for more suggestions, people I’ve never heard of before, and I would love to hear your input.
And so on to this week’s episode, I am interviewing my friend Caron Grossman, and you will hear all about her and a lot about her life and her love of music, particularly Janis Joplin.
And we talked a little bit about Pink Floyd, but mostly Janis Joplin.
The first good chunk of the episode, we talked about her work with Grief, and she has a Ted Talk that I’ve linked in the show notes.
And she also is going to be coming out with a book soon that’s about, it’s like her memoir, but it’s also about how symptoms of heart attacks and things like that, and heart health is very different in women and how the medical community has not caught up with their research on women in this regard yet, and how she saved herself by knowing that, you know, trusting her intuition and what she was feeling, regardless of what textbooks would say.
It’s a really amazing story.
I know you’re going to love this conversation with Caron.
And yeah, and just be blown away by her and the work she’s done in her life and where she’s at.
And as always, all the info for that is in the show notes.
Please, if you want to support this podcast, there is a Patreon page.
You can support for just $2 a month.
It’s awesome to just have that little bit of extra support.
You can also support by rating and reviewing both on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.
Means the world to me.
It’s super easy.
Follow the podcast on whatever platform you’re listening to it.
Share it with some friends who you think would enjoy it or benefit from the information that we talk about.
And I do have a kind of a low key holiday sale running if you want your 60 page detailed Quantum Human Design PDF report.
The link for that is in the show notes.
You can get 35% off with the code HOLIDAY35 at checkout.
It’s pretty much the last sale I’m going to be running for a little while.
And as always, I’m just happy to be here, happy to be here with you listening along and enjoy and have a happy new year.
Hello, everyone, and welcome to this episode of Music By Design.
I am Anna Kinney.
I’m your host.
And today we have a pretty cool lady who I’ve known, we’ve crossed paths a few times over the years, Caron Grossman.
Caron is local here to the Syracuse area, and she and I met in 2019, right before, a few months before Human Design entered my world.
And I imagine, I’m curious to actually find out if we both got the initiation from Therese via that program, or if…
I’m curious how…
Did you know about Human Design before you and I connected?
Because I wasn’t into Human Design when we met.
But anyways, we can get into that in a second, but I’m getting ahead of myself.
But yeah, we were sharing the backseat in a minivan on the way to a sweat lodge.
And we just started talking, as one does, and you were telling us about work you do with grief.
And I think at the time you were constructing your Ted Talk, or you had just done it.
I don’t remember if it…
No, I think I was…
I can’t remember if it was before or after.
It was April.
Yes, I did it in April.
You did it in April.
So it might have been right before, I think it was early April, we went on this little excursion.
So yeah, I think you were telling us like, yeah, I got a Ted Talk and I’m writing a book, and where you had just written a book and all this thing, all this stuff.
And so it’s been about five years, and you and I crossed paths at the end of the year last year again at the Cacao ceremony for the new year at the Center for Sound and Ceremony.
And yeah, and I just started telling you about my podcast idea, which I hadn’t even launched the podcast yet at that point, but I was recording episodes.
So if you would, yeah, just share with the audience a little bit about what I’m filling the gaps for us as far as like what your work involves and all of that.
And if you have a favorite color, that it’s okay, like for me, it changes.
I’ll go a few years and other people, they have, nope, it’s pink all the time, you know?
What’s your favorite color and have you had any songs stuck in your head today?
So let me start with like, okay, let me start with my favorite color, then I’ll get to me.
Yeah.
Typically, my favorite color is purple and I’m one of the people that usually kind of stays there.
Lately, though, I’ve been leaning to yellow.
Yeah, leaning to yellow a lot.
And it’s funny because I actually have said that out loud and it’s like, where’s purple?
But yeah, I’ve been really leaning into yellow.
And today, I honestly, I have thought about music, but I haven’t.
Actually, the one song I was thinking about, because I knew this was coming and I’m like, did I mention it?
Was the Guess Who Share the Land.
And that comes to me every so often.
And I was kind of singing that in my head today.
Cool.
I don’t know that song at the top of my head, but this is what I love about this.
I’m like, I’m going and listening to music all the time.
Yeah.
It’s probably one of my favorites.
It’s probably up there in the top five.
Um, so who am I love that you brought that up because it just reminds me how non-linear my life is.
But yeah, I forgot that we were, I was just getting ready for the Ted Talk and the Ted accent was here in Syracuse and on permission to grieve.
And at that point, I was doing work in end of life grief and grief coaching.
And I still have a passion for both of those, although I’m not working in it.
Um, unless it kind of falls into place.
It’s not something I promote or actually look for.
But sometimes it does land in my, in my space and I definitely don’t walk away from it.
But I am a nurse.
I am a registered nurse and I have been writing a book for a long time, so it’s funny that you mentioned a book because I shifted gears and I actually, I have the book, it’s working with a publisher.
We’re at the end of editing and it’s coming out in February.
And don’t ask me the title because we’re still searching for it.
But if we can come up with one, I’m open, but I’m really excited about it.
It’s two and a half, three years, almost three years ago, I had a heart attack and took me by surprise because my mom died of a heart attack when I was 13 and I have done it.
Over the last almost two decades, I’ve done everything I can not to be in that position.
And I lead a very healthy lifestyle and yet it happened.
And so the idea of the book really came from because my symptoms were not typical and women present different than men when having a heart attack.
And so it’s kind of a mini memoir going through the process and really one, getting the message out that women present different than men having a heart attack and two, listen to your body.
Because my body was not saying heart attack, but it was telling me something was happening and I needed to pay attention.
And so yeah, it’ll be coming out in February, which is Heart Health Month.
So very excited about that.
Awesome, awesome.
Would you share just a little bit like how, what was showing up for you that your body was trying to communicate?
So what happened is I was just chatting with a friend on the phone, and I got like this electric current that started at my chin and just went up both sides of my jaw to my ears.
And I laughed and I said, I’m talking so much my jaw hurts.
And then it kind of faded, and there was a residual dullness.
I knew it was there, but I wasn’t really paying attention.
I was having a good conversation.
And then I felt a dull ache at the base of my neck.
And I mentioned both of these to my friend, and we really didn’t give it any thought whatsoever.
We finished our conversation and I started paying attention.
Like I just knew something was happening in my body.
And I actually thought of taking an aspirin if it was a heart attack.
I didn’t have any aspirin.
I don’t keep aspirin in the house.
And I had just had an echo, an echocardiogram a month before, because I have a family history of cardiac disease.
So we kind of just periodically check on that and it was perfect.
And so I’m thinking, it’s not a heart attack, but something was happening.
Something had my attention.
And so I remembered, I’m a nurse, let’s assess.
And I just started assessing.
And I had none of the typical signs.
I had no chest pain.
I had no pain in my left arm, no elephant sitting on my chest.
I wasn’t short of breath.
And yeah, it took me about 20, 25 minutes to really kind of say something’s, I need to do something.
And I called 911 and I said, I think I’m having a heart attack.
And they said, do you have chest pain, shortness of breath, pain in your left arm?
And I just said, yes, yes, yes, yes.
And they got here within four minutes and they hooked me up and I was having a heart attack.
My right coronary artery was 100% clogged.
And so they took me to the hospital and I got four stents and I’m perfectly healthy and my heart is fine.
And they have no idea why it happened because my arteries are clean.
But the last thought I had before I called 911 was, women present different than men, but they don’t say how.
My mom had been misdiagnosed over and over again with a hiatal hernia and she had symptoms of that, some upper gastric pain, some reflux and she kept going to them and they’re like, oh, it’s just your hiatal hernia.
Yeah, she ended up having a heart attack at 39 and the autopsy showed 13 infarcts which were 13 little heart attacks.
And so I’m glad I remembered that because it made me call.
Yeah.
Wow.
So then that all spurred this book that you’re writing that.
It did.
I’d been working on my memoir for years and I was really stuck and I just couldn’t seem to go past and then as February came this year, 2024, it’s Heart Health Month and so I said, I need to write this.
I need to write this article.
So I wrote an article and it was in Syracuse Women.
It was in a friend of mine’s online magazine, Dynamic Aging for Life magazine.
I work at Crouse Hospital and I said, we need to do some education.
And they just jumped on board and let me, like we did so much education on many different platforms.
And then I said, this is the message.
Like this has to be written.
This needs to get out there in a big way because not only do women not know necessarily that we may present different than men, but healthcare workers didn’t know.
You know, I can’t tell you how many people came up to me just shocked.
And people were shocked that I lied to 9-1-1.
And it’s like, you know what, you have to advocate for yourself.
You have to do what you have to do to be seen and heard.
You work in the system so you know that they would not have come for you if you had said no to all those questions.
You know, I don’t know if I just said I have this like weird thing in my jaw and this weird ache in my neck.
I don’t know, but I wasn’t willing to find out.
Yeah.
Yeah.
All of that also speaks to traditionally, all the medical research that has been done has been done on men.
Because the female cycle has the hormone fluctuations and it’s not like a good, scientifically, we’re not a good control group.
It’s a good way of putting that.
Yeah.
Oh, that just came right out.
But I hear that extra meaning in there.
But yeah, and that’s something that when I’m reading any sort of information on health, that’s like the first thing that’s present in my mind is, okay, but is this really true for me?
Yeah.
Because this is a statistic based on studies done on people who are really physiologically not the same as me.
And energetically, we are all different and unique.
And you had this really strong intuition that was just saying, no, no, no, no, no, like, you can’t ignore this.
Well, you know, and also, and I mean, as women, and I mean, men too, but mostly as women, we have to get this project done, we have to get the kids to work, we have to go do the dishes, we have to, there’s something that takes our attention away for the next right thing.
And I didn’t have anything, even like in my conversation, I was aware, like this was a weird feeling.
But once I hung up, it had 100% of my attention.
And, you know, I was talking to somebody the other day, and this teacher they knew were having these symptoms of like a lot of nausea, some fatigue, like flu-like symptoms.
And she knew something was weird, but she was a teacher, and they suggested she go to the hospital, and she didn’t, and she had to get her plan done or whatever she had to do.
And finally, they made her go.
And her aorta was dissecting.
And she was okay.
But if she had waited, she wouldn’t be.
And it wasn’t her that decided to go to the hospital.
It was her co-workers that made her go to the hospital.
And we don’t want to be a burden.
I personally didn’t want to look stupid.
I used to work in that emergency room, so I didn’t want to show up and think I’m having an anxiety.
Oh, it’s an anxiety attack.
Go home.
Because it can present as an anxiety attack as well.
There’s so many odd little quirks.
It can also traditionally be chest pain.
It can be a traditional too.
But yeah, women present different than men.
And I just like, I just, I feel like it’s a responsibility to do this.
And so once I decided to write in that direction, it just flowed.
And so I’m really excited about that.
Yeah, awesome.
Well, I know I’ve mentioned this, I think one of the episodes that will come out before this one, and quite a few, and I relay this to people all the time, and I think I told you this too, that there’s a very specific moment in our conversation five years ago in that band that I have carried with me and have integrated into not only my practice as an energetic coach and reader and healer and all these things, but just as a person was, you were telling us about how when someone is in active grief, that you have to ask them questions that are easy to answer, right, like that have small time frames around them, because time is this super vast thing that our brains really have a hard time really truly wrapping themselves around.
And so when you ask someone, well, hey, how are you?
It’s the mind doesn’t have a container to put that question in because there’s no time reference around it.
And so it’s just, how am I, how am I doing?
Oh, like it’s a big question.
And depending on where they’re at in their grief that day, you could get a million answers or they might just break down or they might not give you an answer.
And so when you put this time container around it that says, how are you doing today?
How are you doing this morning?
How are you doing right now in this moment?
It’s much easier for the mind at any state no matter what kind of grief you’re in.
Just for the mind, period, to be able to wrap around, oh, right now?
Oh, right now, I’m okay, and this is going on and this is going on.
Or like today, today’s a pretty good day or today’s not a great day.
And it’s much easier to put that around that.
And ever since you shared that with me, I just, it has changed so much about the way I, not only the way I ask these types of questions, but any question that needs a qualitative answer, I always try to put right now, in this moment, today, I try to put that little container on it because it does become much more digestible and easier to answer.
And then as I’ve worked with that over time, I’ve come to really understand that we’re all in some sort of grief.
Like, right?
Perpetually, all the time, all of us are grieving the loss of something all the time, whether it’s the loss, the immediate loss of a loved one.
That’s like the first thing we always think of when we think of grief is, oh, somebody passed.
But, you know, grief is this thing that really never actually ends.
And I also, I grieve the loss of a whole culture of, you know, ancestral culture that was lost because my family immigrated here, or because, you know, the Romans destroyed this village somewhere back in the day, and a practice was lost, or a way of honoring this was lost, or, you know, just living under capitalism and patriarchy.
Like, we’ve lost so many different parts of ourselves as women, as people in general.
We’ve lost touch with our intuition.
We’ve lost touch with all of these things.
And there’s even if we’re not conscious of that loss, there is this undercurrent of grief.
So I’ve just decided I’m just going to approach everyone as much as possible with this idea that we’re all grieving.
For sure.
And so when I in some form or another, absolutely.
Yeah.
So when I just meet somebody and say, oh, hey, how are you?
No, no, it’s hey, how are you right now?
How are you today?
You know, you know, it also brings up two things when you approach somebody like that.
One, it helps them be present.
Because, oh, right now, OK, it’s kind of like, you know, see three things, touch three things, it brings you to the present.
But it also, like, it shows you’re interested.
Because how often, hey, how are you doing?
Yeah.
You’re not really asking a question.
Yeah.
And so a person will answer, but if you’re like, how are you doing right now?
You know, it gives them like, oh, you really are asking a question that you want to know the answer to.
Because it’s just like, it’s like you said, it’s just too big.
So to, if you really want to know, I’ll give you no, but you’re just a casual, oh, how are you doing?
It’s not, it doesn’t, doesn’t create the space for an answer.
Yeah.
And I’m the real answer.
Yeah.
And I’m the kind of gal.
I want the deep conversation always.
So when someone just says, oh, hey, how are you doing?
I’m like, do you really want to know?
Because this can be a long answer, you know?
And even that, even that just, that having become so casual when we meet people and we just casually ask them and we expect a casual answer.
I grieve the loss of that depth in our, you know, one-on-one interactions.
Like there is that undercurrent of loss too, that like we are so disconnected from each other that we ask people how they’re doing, but we’re not actually looking for an answer.
Yeah, no, we’ve, we’ve, it’s, it’s, we’ve lost, I could go on with that, you know, but technology, we’re so accessible.
We’ve lost that sense of privacy and, and there’s like this need to get back, oh, somebody’s texting me, I have to answer.
And it’s like, no, you, you don’t, you know, we’ve lost that, there, there’s so much, there’s so much, the world is moving very quickly.
And it’s, it’s, it can be very hard to catch up.
So tell us a little bit about, about music for you.
And how does first, I really like, I want to know your history with like where, like what, what were some of your first, first musical loves, passions, and things like that?
How did you discover them and all of that?
But I’m also curious, does music play a role in your work as a nurse, as a, as an author, as a speaker?
Do you use it in any kind of practical ways to facilitate what you do?
You know, I love that because it made me think like, what was my first love of music?
And the first thing that popped into my head was Bay City Rollers.
I loved them.
That’s really dating myself.
They, they were a Scottish band, and they always wore tartan, and they, they, they, they got their name because they threw like a dart at the map, and it was Bay City, Michigan.
So they were like the first, I don’t know, they were like a boy band back in the 70s.
And, but, you know, I loved the Partridge family, David Cassidy, those were my first, Bobby Sherman, those were my first introduction to, and then my sister was older, so then her music I would listen to, and it became Elton John, it became Grateful Dead, it became Bob Dylan, Bob Dylan was huge.
And it took a while to find my own music, and it was more so like other than the Bay City rules, when I really started like, music became more important, probably when I started getting high, that was a big part of the experience.
And, you know, so here I was this kind of, my mom had died, and I was introduced to Pott, and there was, there came, I was very like Janis Joplin, the doors.
And then it went on and there was Freebird, you know, so there was this Leonard Skinner phase.
And, but it always went back to Janis and Pink Floyd were probably my two, always Janis.
Janis got me through a lot.
Yeah, she still does.
Yeah, I’ll still, I will still listen to her when I need to and when I want to.
And, and that’s where music comes into play.
I’m a breathwork facilitator.
And one of my absolute favorite thing to do is make the playlist.
And depending on, like, I think our next class is about breathwork for Massive Courage, I think it is, or I can’t remember what it’s for.
So I am going to dive deep.
I will go into Spotify, and I will probably take up to four hours going down rabbit holes, like putting in an idea, and then you find all this other music that I’ve never even heard of.
And I get to come up with eight songs that support what we’re doing.
And it’s such a huge part.
I mean, I can’t imagine doing the breathwork that we do without the music.
That’s such a huge component.
And it’s one of my favorite parts of it.
It just brings me joy.
Is that a part of the…
Like when you get breathwork certification or training, do they go into what it is about the music and why it’s so important?
Yeah, it’s about pacing.
You usually start with really fast moving, fast paced songs, and then you kind of level off, and then you bring it to a slower.
I’m always very particular.
I want the last couple songs, the last one in particular, I want it, if it’s not necessarily the song, the lyrics, because it doesn’t always have to be the lyrics.
But I want it to, the music, like just the tempo or the, where it’s just like kind of, it’s kind of slow and almost haunting.
And then it can just build because the end of it, and then we do a massive scream at the end of it.
So I like it to build, and then we hit the gong and it just goes into this huge primal scream.
And it’s, I just, I love it.
I love it so much.
And I had been away.
I actually, oh my gosh, this is fascinating.
I can’t believe I’m going to talk about this.
I’m not going to talk about it in detail.
My ex-husband was very, music was huge in his life.
And he introduced me to some people I would have never, ever heard of if, if not for him.
And when I left the marriage, I did not listen to music for probably five years.
I mean, nothing.
And I remember I met somebody and he loved the band, and the band is one of my favorites.
And I was like, oh, I love music.
I love music.
And so I started listening again, slowly putting it back into my life.
And it was really, I didn’t do it intentionally.
It just sort of happened.
Yeah.
Kind of like part of your grieving process of that separation.
Grief is a funny word when it comes to that.
Yeah.
I don’t think I’ve ever really said that.
Certainly never publicly, but never really out loud.
Because yeah, it was interesting when I figured that out, that I was like, oh, I haven’t listened to music.
I hadn’t gone to live music.
I hadn’t listened to the radio.
Nothing.
I think energetically, just what comes to mind with that is, you know, Caron’s a 4-6 manifesting generator, and she has a quadruple split.
She’s one of the super, super rare quadruple splits where eight out of nine centers are defined and the eight centers that are defined are all in four groups of pairs, which is really interesting and fascinating.
And I’m always curious to hear about the experience of folks like yourself, because it is rare, it is quite rare, even though a lot of people say, oh, generators are so common, but there are so many, so many ways that those energetics can play out.
All of your definition, all your defined channels are either found either collective or individual.
And having the head in Ajna defined there, I find that a lot of times the headgates do require some sort of silence at some point.
And how long were you with your ex-husband?
How long were you together?
We were together 17 years.
17 years.
So it’s a long time to be in one conditioning field when you have a quadruple split.
It’s like you get conditioned through all those splits very heavily.
And so there’s all kinds of generalizations made by people who teach human design about what a quadruple split will seek in relationships or seek energetically.
And often it’s commented that a quadruple split can seek a couple people that kind of stabilize that.
But that every once in a while, you do need to kind of shift that conditioning field.
Because like you said, you just totally even forgot that you even have your own tastes and preferences.
I don’t know what your ex-husband’s design looks like, but he probably bridged at least one, if not several of your splits.
And just in general, we tend to do that, where we kind of lose ourselves in, we lose our identities in a relationship or something like that.
And then personally, when I went through a big separation like that, I didn’t play my instrument for two and a half years, because it was so deeply associated with that other person.
And it took a huge healing moment, and then COVID, for me to finally be like, okay, I’m going to take another whack at this again.
But yeah, that’s just, it’s interesting to hear.
Thank you for sharing that.
Before we talk more about Janis, I’m just curious with Pink Floyd, are you a Syd Barrett girl or a David Gilmore girl?
I initially was Syd Barrett.
I love Syd Barrett and then Roger Waters.
David Gilmore, I kind of, Roger Waters.
Yeah, I remember seeing Pink Floyd in 87 and Roger Waters wasn’t with him.
And somebody was walking by with a sign and it said something about Roger Waters is, I think it was like Roger Waters is a dick or something.
And this guy, I was with a friend of mine, and he goes, who’s Roger Waters?
And I’m like, why are you at a Pink Floyd show?
Like, how do you not know Roger Waters and you just paid all this money and went to Canada?
And you don’t know who, I mean, I just could not understand that.
But yeah, I, Sid Barrett, I found, you know, he was just mad.
And so I found him fascinating.
And, but Roger Waters, I just, I just really, like, I really was drawn to him.
Yeah, yeah, I just pulled up his chart really quick, just to take a quick little gander.
Because with other folks I’ve interviewed who are like a split definition or a triple split, often they tend to, I mean, first of all, they usually love going to these huge shows.
Triple splits in particular, love going to huge shows with thousands of people, because the triple split really craves lots of different ways of getting those bridges splits all the time, all the time, all the time.
So going to a big show is kind of like getting flooded with all the ways the bridges could get split.
But with the quadruple, it’s almost like, it’s almost a little bit more delicate.
And I could see how maybe the idea of like a huge concert might seem like a little too much, a little overwhelming.
Yeah, for sure.
Looking at Roger Waters’ chart, he actually bridges two of your splits that I could see right off the bat.
Yeah, he bridges two of your four splits.
So when you’re like kind of tapping into that, energetic in the music, it’s bringing your head, your Ajna, your throat, your identity, the will center.
It’s bringing like a good chunk of your definition kind of together and flow, which might feel like just really nice to like have at least half of your design kind of smoothly communicating with a band scenario, where there’s four members all kind of imbuing the music with their energy.
You’re going to get like the full completion of all those splits.
But Roger, bridging the, there’s only three ways that the Ajna and the throat can get bridged.
There’s only three channels.
So it tends to be a little bit harder of a split to bridge that I’ve seen in people like it’s, it’s a, there’s only six out of 64 gates that could do that versus other centers have, like the throat center has 11 gates in it.
So there’s 11 potential ways that that could get bridged if that was the only split, if that makes any sense.
It does, there’s a lot I still need to understand and all this.
But yeah, no, it does.
That’s great.
That’s cool.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I was curious.
I personally really love David Gilmore.
Syd Barrett is quite a trip.
You know, when I’ve dabbled in some of the deep cut Pink Floyd stuff.
And yeah, he made some really interesting music and he was also quite out there.
David Gilmore had a bit more of, he’s a little bit more like easy on the eyes.
Oh, for sure.
You know, dreamy and had the very, very dreamy sound to his vocals.
And yeah, I like him as someone who I’ve never seen Pink Floyd live or anything like that.
But my first real like dive into Pink Floyd was watching the movie Live at Pompeii.
So I think that’s why he got me.
Really, really like that.
But yeah, Roger Waters is definitely, he is the orchestrator of the band.
And-
We used to do the midnight movie of The Wall a lot at the Hollywood.
Yeah, yeah, seen that one a million times now too.
And, but that one always was like, it’s still a little out there for me.
Like it’s good, don’t get me wrong, love The Wall, can’t get enough of it.
Scream at the top of your lungs, scream along to the soundtrack, love it.
But the movie is, I don’t know, it’s something about like the nature of the way some of the illustrations are and the graphics.
For me and my eye, it’s like, it’s a little rough to look at.
I can see that.
It’s not, it’s not my personally, my favorite, that kind of style.
Like there’s certain cartoons too, that like when I watch them, I’m just like, I just don’t, it doesn’t, it doesn’t, I don’t like it.
Where I was at the time, my mom had been dead for three years.
I was 16, I was really bucking authority in society, and really my adolescence was incredibly tumultuous.
I just, there was, that’s where the grief, I got fascinated with grief.
And so that was perfect for where I was.
It was absolutely perfect for where I was, the chaos.
That’s what I was, there was a lot of chaos that I was drawn to in that.
Did you ever get to see Janis live?
Or when did you, when did she first get into her, and tell us more about that?
I would say probably, maybe 15, maybe I was 15.
And so that she had been dead for eight years at that point.
But you know, it’s interesting.
I went to, there was an off-Broadway show called Love Janis, and I saw it a couple of times.
It was incredible.
And I remember sitting at this table, it was a four-seat table and I was with a friend of mine.
So we went down to New York and I was sitting with this young girl and her mother.
The girl was 17.
And we were just, I was chatting with her and I was much older than 17.
And her two favorites were Janis Joplin and Pink Floyd.
And I was like, what?
Like I was like so fascinated.
And she was, she’s not even somebody, if I was to look at her to think that she would have even heard of either one of them, let alone they were her favorites.
Because you don’t always put Janis and Pink Floyd together and they were like, just they made sense to me.
And so I loved it that here was this 17-year-old.
And this was in the probably late 90s that it was happening, I would say, maybe early 2000.
But yeah, it was, it was interesting.
I was thrilled to see our adolescent out there with music.
You had said earlier that she, her music helped you get through like these kind of tougher times after your mother passed.
I’m assuming people have heard Janis Joplin’s music before, everybody listening to this.
But if you haven’t, please go listen.
She has a very unique sound, very like raspy voice, kind of like, like almost like a, not a scream thing, but she kind of is almost like shouting as she’s singing in some of the songs.
And there’s other songs where her voice is very sweet and smooth.
But she’s really known for that very rough belted out loud kind of sound.
Can you speak a little bit more to like what it is about her that really helped you then and that you still love now?
Janis was an incredibly strong woman in a man’s world.
And she really fought her way to get where she was.
You know, she was very like bullied, hipped on, and she just became her own person.
And I think a lot of what she wore, I mean, one, it was the sign, you know, the times that she was very much in that hippie garb.
But also, I think she hid behind it.
You know, it was this big mask.
And she was this incredibly vulnerable, scared little girl that I could see.
And that’s where I was.
You know, I put on this huge, like, I couldn’t let anybody see how broken I was.
Even though I desperately wanted somebody to.
And I just related to her as a person.
And then her music.
She spoke for me, she screamed for me.
She didn’t take any shit from anybody.
And she was very sad.
You know, she was very sad.
So yeah, I was just drawn to her.
I felt aligned with her.
I felt like she understood me.
I felt I understood her.
And I love that I didn’t give this any thought.
I mean, I knew where these questions that you were gonna go with, and I’ve given it no thought.
And I love that because I have to really look at that right now.
And yeah, she was raw.
She was raw.
And in all the interviews, I mean, yeah, there were some really incredible women singers at that time.
But they were mostly, not all of them, but they were mostly in bands.
And she was in a band too, but, or bands, but it was Janis.
She just moved through the world as she wanted.
And again, though, I know she was just hiding behind so much of that.
Well, we’ll get to why I’m leading down this road in a moment.
But did you have any siblings or any other family that was like there when all of that was kind of happening for you?
Like, who else was around?
My sister, but she was like a senior.
But she was at that stage where she was like going to a lot of shows, going out with her friends, and then she went to college.
And her music I did enjoy, although I resisted the Grateful Dead.
She was a pretty big deadhead.
And for some reason, I resisted it, which is weird because you’d think that would be the lifestyle that I would have dove into, that community, that belonging, that the culture that they created.
But for some reason, I mean, I’ve been to many, many dead shows, but for some reason, that wasn’t the path.
Awesome.
I love that you just kind of put into words what my next question was going to be, was about, do you have in your chart the gate of aloneness in your Uranus position?
And when I pull in, when I look at where Janis was born in Port Arthur, Texas, which is right on the border between Texas and Louisiana, Alabama, whichever.
Louisiana.
Louisiana.
I haven’t been there, so my association with these places, I’m not as familiar with, but this is like one of the cool things here on Music By Design.
So if you look right around where Texas meets, Louisiana, there’s this green line that shows up.
And it’s like, I had to look where Port Arthur is on the map because it is literally right.
Yeah, it’s right on the border.
Right on the edge, on the far eastern most little spot in Texas, right on the Gulf of Mexico.
And when we look at your astro-cartography, I mean, that is right where that green line is.
It’s just a little bit east of Port Arthur, but it is right there.
That green line is your Uranus line, and the Uranus gate is gate 40, the gate of what we call aloneness or loneliness.
And you have this gate hanging.
You see gate 40 here in your will center, and you have all the gates in the will center defined, but this is one of the two that’s hanging.
You don’t have your solar plexus is undefined, which is what it wants to connect to.
So there’s, and we always say in human design, wherever you’re open is like your first kind of vulnerability to conditioning.
And with, I mean, there’s a lot to nuance to get in to there.
Knowing that you have this quadruple split, that kind of takes priority in the conditioning realm as far as I’m concerned.
But also seeing that the solar plexus is the only center you have undefined as well.
And that this gate is just reaching for it and wanting it.
This is a place where I could see in, not only the music that you look for, but also in people maybe that you gravitate towards, is looking for that kind of companionship energy in other folks who exhibit a similar lone wolf aura or an energy.
Because I could see, and tell me if I’m projecting, but knowing that your mother had passed, and then two years later, you found Janis Joplin’s music.
And even though there was all this other potential stuff out there, you still just kept coming back to her because she was very much this kind of archetype of aloneness.
And she obviously had addictions and all kinds of issues and things like that.
And she passed at a very, very, very young age.
It just sounds to me like you had already named that there was something there about, you weren’t really necessarily looking for that big community.
You weren’t looking for that big sound that the dead had or any of that.
And even like Pink Floyd, like they were a band and they had a big sound, but it wasn’t like a culture.
It wasn’t a culture the way that Grateful Dead was or something.
And even Janis, it wasn’t even really a culture.
She wasn’t really-
No, you’re absolutely right.
Part of like a culture.
There was more of that kind of-
yeah.
So tell me how that’s like kind of hitting or resonating for you a little bit.
It’s-
that is so fascinating because there-
it is that aloneness you speak to, I-
it resonates.
But I never understood why I wasn’t drawn.
I mean, like I said, I’ve been to many shows, I’ve had great times, but that would have been the perfect place for me to go.
And I was introduced to it.
And I just-
I resisted it.
I almost-
I don’t want to say I was repelled by it, but I resisted it.
And it would have been something that would have connected me with my sister and still I resisted it.
So that’s really fascinating.
Yeah.
You know, the other side of that channel, the Gate 37 that wants to connect to Gate 40 from the solar plexus, is called the Gate of Friendship.
it’s where these two meet together, creates a channel that is intended to kind of cultivate and foster community and that the role that aloneness serves is to create space to digest the communal experience.
You know, like you go, you go out, you go see the show, you go to the party, you go to the gathering, whatever it is, you have that communal experience.
But then that that gate 40 is always going to pull you back out of that and want to cultivate this, yeah, this alone space for the processing and integration and digestion of the communal experience.
And so that 40 is looking, it is looking for the friendship that’s going to like pull you back out of the aloneness, but without that sometimes, perhaps almost isolating yourself to a fault.
Did you ever find yourself kind of falling into that, what we would call like the shadow side of the aloneness is then-
Oh, definitely.
Like loving it too much and maybe even using it as a place of kind of like self-pity or self-victimization or just falling into the habit of just always being alone and never needing anybody and, you know, I can do it myself and then it becomes this like disconnect.
Yes, I can relate to that.
So I can see how, you know, just from that astro-chartography piece alone, her music, her energy is kind of, it’s like an anchor point for that.
It’s cool.
I’m curious, you know, she only created three studio albums before she passed, but there was a lot of live albums.
So I’m curious, like, do you have any favorite, any songs in particular that you really love, or is that like a live show that you really love of hers, or what really?
Well, I have, I mean, probably my favorite is Pearl.
And probably my favorite song is, I mean, me and Bobby McGee, but that’s for just fun memory.
It’s just a great song.
Probably, there’s two that, and it kind of sums up everything that you’re talking about, is Trust Me and Women Left Lonely.
But I also have, oh, I wish I had it in my hand, it’s in the other room.
It’s one of the very few CDs I have kept in my life.
My brother-in-law gave me, it’s like a six CD set of bootleg before she was even known, like in bars.
And she has one song where she’s just playing the typewriter.
And it’s so, yeah, I haven’t listened to that in a really long time.
Yeah, I actually was listening to that today.
Yeah.
Yeah, it was called the Typewriter Sessions.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It’s very casual.
And there’s a lot of like, just like back, like the whoever the guitarist is, he’ll be like playing a solo in the middle of the song.
You can hear her just like talking to somebody else off on the side.
And like you like I didn’t realize that was something to be found.
Like you found that like you were found it and we’re listening to it.
Yeah, it’s on Spotify.
Are you kidding me?
I didn’t, I mean, and I’ve done a lot of listening to Janis on Spotify.
I never saw that.
So I find that Spotify, if you just put it on, if you just hit play on the artist, and it’ll just shuffle through some of their like top couple tracks and then it will eventually go to some other artists.
So I went into Janis’ artist profile on Spotify.
And if you go down to where it says like, see all discography, I hit that button and it’s.
Gotcha.
Of course.
It’s the first one.
So like chronologically, it would have been the last one to be added to Spotify because it comes up at the top.
And I was like, oh, because I’ve gone, I’ve listened to Janis before.
I’ve gone through and like listen to albums and things like this.
But I don’t think I’ve ever seen that before.
So it must be like a new ad.
And yeah, it’s very cool because just-
I don’t know.
My brother-in-law gave me that 40, 30, 35 years ago.
40, I mean, like a long, he gave it to me a lot.
Well, in CDs.
So I had to be after CDs.
So it couldn’t have been that long.
But yeah, no, I’m so thrilled that it’s out there.
Yeah.
Yeah, it’s cool.
So definitely for anybody listening, go check out the Typewriter Sessions.
It’s pretty neat, pretty neat.
I’m not as familiar with the Pearl album, and the Pearl album is one that was released after she had passed.
Like she must have just finished recording it.
So it’s not one that I think people tend to really go to or really are super familiar with.
People are more familiar with the stuff that she had been playing live.
That’s funny because that is my favorite.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I’m going to familiarize myself with that one a little bit more.
But yeah, a woman left lonely.
Oh, thanks for putting a bow on that little connection there.
You know, aside from that, when we just look at her chart and your chart together, the two of you have quite a few similar gates, different positions, but like you’ve got gate 29, she’s got gate 29, and she’s got this and you’ve got this.
And she does bridge one of your splits in there too.
So it’s just, it seems like a really, yeah, like a nice like anchor energy for you where you’re getting both a little bit of that energy flow, kind of like that gap being bridged a little, while at the same time, mostly, there’s a lot of companionship energy.
There’s a lot of like the same, like you hear in her a lot of the same sort of ideas and thoughts and struggles and sentiments that she also, that you also experience.
And those are going to be consistent throughout your life, whether you’re 15 or 20 or 30 or 40.
So yeah, I love that.
Or 60.
And she has been one of the few consistence in my life.
I always bring her with me.
So yeah, the Roger Waters, that was really interesting too.
So I mean, I didn’t know we were going there.
So yeah, I didn’t go too much deeper into, I just pulled that up kind of on the fly here.
And in Human Design, he’s a self-projected projector.
So he has very, so Roger’s just has the asana, the throat, and the identity center defined, just that little chunk right here.
And so it’s very, I mean, and this is something I find fascinating too.
Let’s see, out of the 11 gates in the throat center, he has one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine.
He has nine out of 11 of the energies, like almost all of his energy is in the throat, coming out of it, right?
And so the throat’s not just about like talking, right?
It’s about creation.
It’s about manifesting.
It’s about creative expression.
And you know, who else I’ve seen has this, just as many gates defined in the throat is Paul McCartney and Jerry Garcia.
Coincidentally, we were talking about them.
They all three of them have eight or nine out of the 11 gates in the throat defined.
That’s a it’s like, yeah, you’re just destined to be a creator so prolific in your life.
And it just has to come out.
It has to come out.
And what’s cool, too, is when you have that many activations in the throat, they’re not all going to be full channels.
A lot of them are just half channels coming off.
They’re just reaching, wanting to connect with someone else’s energy, which is going to help other people manifest.
You know, on the other side of Paul McCartney, we had John Lennon, who only had one activation in the throat.
But he and Paul together, they had like four or five electromagnetics that all connected to the throat.
So together, they were even creating even more of this creation energy together.
Because Paul filled in all the gaps where John was missing them, but John filled in gaps where Paul was missing them, and it was really cool.
And like Bobby and Jerry do the same thing with each other.
That’s fascinating.
Yeah.
It really is.
I mean, that’s pretty incredible.
Let’s see.
She’s a four, six generator.
So you two also have the profile in common, which is something that I’ve seen over time.
And like personally, I’ve experienced where, when I first started doing this research, and just kind of comparing charts and stuff of all the people that I liked over the years, I found that most of the artists that I gravitated towards first, as a young person exploring the music, a lot of them were also the same profile as me.
Because the profile is very much about the role you’re here to play in the world, and it comes with its own trials and tribulations.
Every profile kind of has its own thing.
So four, six, but the four, and this is where the four in your profile, and in hers too, would kind of contrast with that aloneness energy, and can almost create an inner dialogue of thinking that the aloneness, there’s something wrong with the aloneness, because the four line in your profile wants connection, wants community, wants to build deep, intimate connections with people.
And then the aloneness energy comes in, and it almost pulls you away from those.
And it can, there’s always these conundrums in our charts, where we have to navigate the polarities between these different aspects of our energy and honor both of them, without making one of them bad or wrong, you know?
And so you both have the conscious four, which is, like I said, about deep, intimate connection.
Like, at the end of the day, these are people that can be really good at creating community.
You know, like, it doesn’t have to be huge, but when you need to pull together an event or a group for something, you’re really good at pulling people together who, to have this, like, deep connected experience.
But you yourself, your true, true community may only be one or two or three people.
And they’re the people that really, really, like, if you’re going to spend time with anyone, you would rather spend time with them.
And it’s not just, it’s not surface level, it’s very, very deep.
And they’re the ones that are going to bring you opportunities and they’re the ones that are going to kind of bring you initiations and things like that, because you have created such a tight bond with them.
And then the sixth, the sixth is about living this, like, three-phase life.
I know we talked about this in your reading bit too, where you’re here to really blossom in this later stage of life, where you’ve taken all the stuff that you’ve had to deal with your whole life, especially that first 30 years was like a doozy.
Whereas where, you know, a lot of the biggest, I don’t know if we would call them mistakes or just life experiences that are going to have you question, why is this happening to me?
Right?
Like that kind of, that stuff tends to happen in that first 30 years.
And then in the next 20 is when, 20 to 30 is when you’re just kind of integrating all of that and healing from it, and building your life and not in as much of the thick of all the things happening to you.
And then after 50 is when the true alchemy really like happens.
Right?
Where it’s true.
Like you said, like all of these, I hate using the word, it’s funny, but we always say that when it comes to synchronistic things or intuition.
But you said that the heart attack happened three years ago.
And the solstice, it’ll be three years and the solstice.
Oh, wow.
Oh, my solstice, even more fun.
Well, it’s like a big energetic shift.
Well, it was 12, 21, 21.
And my birthday is 12, 12.
And it was just like this whole, I don’t know, it was just like, was all.
How?
It made something, I don’t know.
Yeah.
Well, I feel like happening on a date like that to someone who pays attention to synchronicity and numbers, I’m sure that that probably somewhere in your thought process of needing to call the ambulance and all of that, somewhere you were like, and I’ve got all these crazy numbers happening today.
It’s just like one more drop in the bucket of yes, intuition is calling, listen, you know?
Yeah, yeah.
So, when you’re like cyclically enter, like with these cycles that happen in life, your second Saturn return usually happens between like 55 and 60.
And that’s kind of like right around where this health issue kind of came up for you.
And it’s a big piece in this transition of getting off of what we call off the roof from that middle phase of life that the six line profile goes through.
And it’s not like instantaneous, right?
Right at 50, you get right off the roof.
It’s a slow transition.
But it’s the sort of thing that between the Chiron return at 50 and the Saturn return at 60, it’s life’s going to bring you things that are going to guide you into this third phase of becoming that sage, that wise woman who really is here to spread the wisdom and knowledge that you have gleaned from all your life experiences.
And it’s kind of like the kick in the butt to kind of like, well, you got to write this book.
You got to get this information out there.
You got to do this is the healing work for you.
No, go do it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so true with Janis.
So she this is an interesting thing I’ve been looking at with artists too.
She’s in what we call the 27 Club.
Yeah.
Right.
Which is all these artists that passed away at the age of 27.
And typically, 27, 28 is right on the threshold of the first Saturn return.
And I’ve been looking at all these artists that are in that 27 Club and looking at when was their exact Saturn return.
And for most of them, they passed right before their Saturn return officially, before Saturn moved into the sign that would have started their actual return.
It’s almost like they knew, they didn’t want to get past that.
And being that Janis is a sixth line, that 27, 28 years old really is that marker of the end of that first phase of life.
There’s so many other artists and a couple I’ve talked about on this podcast, like Elton John was one.
I think Elvis was another one.
They were all sixth lines.
And they had the very, very kind of successful, but also rough first 30 years, you know, with the drugs and the alcohol and the overdoing it and being overbooked and being pushed to their limits and all that sort of stuff.
And also being super successful and being very prolific.
Some of them make it past that first phase, but it seems like culturally Janis wasn’t really in a place where rehab was maybe not necessarily an option for her, or it just wasn’t part of her culture that she was in.
Whereas somebody like Elton John a little bit later, in the 80s and 90s, 70s and 80s, he had the wherewithal to be like, I’m going to check myself in.
I got to stop this because I don’t want to be like all the other ones that came before that past.
So it’s interesting.
I’m curious, what was going on for you in life around that 27, 28 years?
Got married when I was 28.
28 was a big year now that I think of it.
28, I got married.
I got pregnant.
We bought a house.
I was hospitalized for my pregnancy.
My son was born three months early and he died three days later.
And then when I decided to go, I turned 29 and when I was going back to work, I took a part-time job, so I had this huge cut in pay.
So I just remember very distinctly that year, because I was doing one, you know, I ever see those tests like, these are the numbers for your stress.
This is what were 10 points and this is, and I was like, I was off the charts at 28, now that I put it together.
Yeah.
Were you already on a track to study nursing at that point?
No, no, I didn’t start that for a couple years after that.
I was 31 when I decided to do that.
Okay.
So that beautifully tracks in that, transitioning out of that first phase and then into the second phase.
And transitioning into the second phase, it can take a couple years.
It’s not always instantaneous, just like transitioning to the third phase.
It’s life, it’s time, things take a little time and there is a transition.
And that middle period is all about just, like I said, we call it being on the roof.
You’re not in the thick of it.
You’re not in the mess.
You were in other ways, you were in other people’s messes, helping them heal from their messes by becoming a nurse and all of that.
But really, had anything else really significant happened to you in life in that middle period at all, or was it generally pretty quiet, just for the sake of the data?
Middle period being?
Like that 30 to 50, 55.
So I did a very long stretch to become a nurse because I had kids at home and married and working, and it was that I became a nurse.
I got into recovery.
I left my marriage.
I upped my recovery with removing another substance.
And yeah, really kind of came into my own.
It was a busy couple of decades.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it’s meant to be like that time where, yeah, you’re just kind of like healing from all the previous stuff that came before.
You’re healing, you’re integrating, kind of, yeah, sussing out what makes the cut.
When you’re on the roof, you can only take so many things with you.
So what made the cut?
Yeah.
And how do you feel moving into this third phase of life?
When I was heading towards 60, it was a little weird.
Now that I am 60 and I’m almost towards finishing up 60, I’m really comfortable in it.
I have a functional medicine doctor and I was with her today, and we reviewed my last 10 years because I was saying something about, well, I haven’t really exercised much in the last 10 years.
And she’s like, let’s look at your last 10 years.
And she just took the timeline and broke it down.
And I was like, wow.
And she goes, and that’s all done.
And so here you are.
And so I feel like I’m on a springboard today.
I’m like, okay, with the book coming out, I’m perfectly healthy.
I mean, it’s just wide open, whatever direction I want to go in.
And I’m feeling that.
So it’s funny you asked me that question today.
It could have been a different answer last week.
But I’ve been enjoying being 60 and seeing what’s coming up.
And I’m so excited with this book and what it can do.
So yeah, I’m excited to hear more about it and keep my eyes peeled for when it comes out.
Well, we’ll have to come up with a title at some point.
Well, thank you so much for chatting with me about all of these things and Janis and being open to just kind of sussing out some of the energetics here.
It’s really cool.
Like I said, this is a research project that I’m just excited about and I like hearing the stories and sometimes getting my theories completely blown out of the water.
Not today, not today.
It was pretty spot on and I really appreciate what you’re doing.
It’s fascinating and I feel like we both have used that word so many times and it’s true though.
I mean, this is really pretty amazing.
I really appreciate what you’re doing and inviting me to do this.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Of course.
It really is like music is something that I think not everybody really thinks about, not everybody needs to think about.
That’s why I’m here.
But it is something that we create a soundtrack for our lives.
We create these moments where sometimes memories are cemented in by certain scents, right?
Our sense of smell is so tied to some deep, deep subconscious memories and things like that, that a smell can pull up a memory you haven’t thought of for the long time, right?
And the things that we see and things that we touch, but music, this thing that you can’t even really see it, the sound, but it does touch.
I’ve been reading this book about, it’s called Music and Ecstasy.
And they go super deep into the actual physiology of the ear and what is actually happening when we hear something.
And you’re literally being touched on the inside of your ear by these sound waves.
And it’s a way that an artist, a creator, can like, you are physically being touched by this sound, like the way that everything works.
And they can literally reach out and touch so many people simultaneously.
And then when you layer in the more metaphysical, the energetic part of it on top of it, it’s like we are getting this like very palpable connection to another person at the same time that all the people around us that are hearing the same thing are also getting that connection.
It’s just wild.
Music is such a wild thing.
And we naturally just create it and gravitate towards it and love it, and have been for all of time.
It’s such a wild thing.
And that so many people can…
You have so many people that like the same music, and then you have so many people that don’t care for that music at all.
And I love just exploring what it is that it…
What did it do for you?
I love hearing it.
So thank you for sharing.
That’s a good exploration.
Yeah, thank you.
Thank you for sharing and being with us here today.
And if anyone wants to get in on a breathwork session with you, or get an update on when your book comes out, or any other things that you do out in the world, where would you love to connect with people on the internet and in person and things like that?
I mean, Instagram is at Caron Grossman, and that’s C-A-R-O-N, G-R-O-S-S-M-A-N.
I am just starting to put some information out on that.
And I mean, Facebook, I have this whole thing that I have to explore this whole new side of social media with this book.
And it’s been very interesting learning more than I had intended.
So, but yeah, no, Instagram would probably be the best thing at this point.
I don’t have my website up yet, but it will be at, you know, at, not at.
It’ll be carongrossman.com.
And hopefully that’ll be up in the next, well, maybe by this, it might come out, it might be up.
It should be up, not, should be up soon.
Okay.
Okay.
So.
Cool.
There you go.
Awesome.
Yeah, definitely reach out to her.
And where do you primarily do when you do breathwork classes?
I would say the best way to find that is you can find that.
I don’t know that there’s an Instagram, but on Facebook, there is Center for Sound and Ceremony.
And it’s always listed there.
How often do you do those?
Right now, we do it once a month.
We do it on a Sunday at 10 o’clock.
We’re also open to the idea.
We were going to do it weekly.
People wanted it more.
It wasn’t happening.
So we’re considering going back to doing it more, maybe in the evening during the week at some point.
We haven’t picked a date though.
So definitely at least once a month.
Cool.
And when people request, we will add.
Yeah.
I look forward to make some space this winter to come join you for one.
Well, that’d be great.
Thank you.
I would love it.
All right.
Awesome.
Well, thank you so much to everybody listening, and we’ll see you on the next one.
Hey, you made it to the end of the episode.
What did you think?
Are you fascinated by this all?
Do you have loads of questions now?
Are you going to go look up some charts of all your favorite musicians?
Well, come on over to my Patreon page at the link in the show notes, and let me know all about it.
I would also really love it if you could leave a rating and review and share the podcast with a friend who you think might enjoy it.
Until next time, keep on rocking, my friends.
